So, I was warned by others that if/when I ever got knocked up, that basketball known as my uterus would become public property. Ripe for the opinions, advice (well-intentioned or otherwise), and for people touching me (no one's tried that yet. I will personally bitch slap the first person who does*. I am not a Care Bear, do not touch the stomach.)

So far, I haven't been disappointed (except the stomach rubbing part. Luckily, I'm safe from that. I think I generally give off the "I am not a smurf, don't pat me" air.) I get a lot of advice (generally well-intentioned, and of that advice, it's very welcome. Hints are good. I like hints.)

What I haven't had is a lot of real-life gasping horror at how we're planning things-I've had emails and comments, but no one has said anything to my face. Maybe I don't get that as my colleagues here don't really flap one way or another - we're a close bunch, but as long as our project plans get done, then hey-paint your face purple and run a parade float, who gives a shit? My family has turned out to be surprisingly hands-off-I thought my dad would be running interference, but his line has staunchly been "whatever you want to do, I support you". Props to my dad, then. He does sternly admonish that although I'm a vegetarian, our children should be meat-eaters, and actually I agree. I think being a vegetarian is a choice up to the individual, so if the kids decide to not eat meat then cool-that's their call.

My father has had one issue with me, though.

He wants us to get married before the babies are born.

My short answer to him was: No.

My long answer to him was: No.

I know it seems like we're going about things the wrong way, but Angus and I have both been married before. To us, we maybe see things a bit more...cynically. We're jaded. Don't get me wrong, we're engaged and we will get married, but neither of us personally see being hitched as a major showstopper in producing babies. They are coming out of the chute regardless of whether or not there's a marriage certificate to burst through like a scene from Chariots of Fire.

Unmarried families seem to be the norm in Sweden (I could count on one hand the number of married couples I knew there.) Likewise, although married families are more common that unmarried ones in England, we do also know a number of couples that aren't married but raising children together. In the U.S., the incidence of unmarried families is rising as well and is currently at an all-time high-30% of all parents are unmarried, and a study showed that unmarried couples with children tended to be the most stable relationship. This is exactly what we want-stability. I have a severely unstable background, I won't have that for my kids.

In some areas I'm a seriously stubborn chick. I won't marry for a visa - I have a work visa, thanks, and I prefer to be here on my own two feet (insert strains of I am Woman Hear Me Roar here.) I won't marry because I'm pregnant (insert strains of Deliverance here.) I won't get married for any reason other than I love the man and I want to spend the rest of my life with him. And I do love my man and want to spend the rest of my life with him, it's the details that need working out. Angus wants a big wedding with all his friends and family so cool, we can do that (personally, I'd prefer a beach deal with just the two of us, but I know he's a bit of a traditionalist, and that's fine). But it'll be a lot of stress to arrange, plan, and hold a wedding between now and October, and I'd really rather not do it while desperately searching for empire waisted dresses to accommodate a growing bump and hoping to God I'll poop sometime in the near future, although ideally not moments before that "walking down the aisle" part. I want a proper honeymoon, with alcohol and sun and scuba diving, none of which are ok now. And as I keep growing, I'll be on a travel ban soon enough, we feel there simply isn't time enough to plan these things.

He and I are resolute-we will get married.

Just not this year.

Angus' family, whom we met at his mother's home in East Sussex last weekend, asked us similar questions. It turned out to be quite a nice visit, although the middle of it was pockmarked by my contentious views. I swear I never mean to cause waves with them, but this time it was rather unavoidable. Over the dessert course his family asked us when we'd be getting married this year and asked if they should buy tickets (for some reason they have it in their heads that we're all flying off to Hawaii together and Angus and I are going to united in matrimony there. Neither Angus nor I have the faintest idea where they got this idea from, it hadn't occurred to us and the idea didn't originate from us. It does, however, seem to the plan that everyone wants and expects.) We explained to them that we wouldn't be getting married this year.

Insert gasps of horror from his family.

"So...your kids will be..." chokes his sister-in-law Terry.

"Little bastards, yeah," I grin, finishing her sentence for her.

"But they will be missing out on their rights!" she exclaims.

"Really? What rights will our children lack?" I ask.

She was unable to answer.

I thought so.

If we thought that was bad, our next announcement was like dropping a bomb on the quiet English countryside.

"And we're not going to have a Christening, either," Angus announces.

We're not. Neither of us are remotely religious-Angus could loosely be described as a Christian, as for myself I pretty much walk the agnostic line and have done for some time. We both feel that religion is like being a vegetarian-it's a choice. If our kids decide to be baptised someday, if they decide to be churchgoing, then we will support them in their decision. But Angus and I come from different backgrounds-I was raised Catholic, he was raised Church of England. Who are we to say that one religion should trump the other?

That didn't sit at all well with the family. Angus' Mum and Stepfather attend church occasionally. His Fillipina sister-in-law Jane is a practicing Catholic (apart from that whole shotgun wedding thing.) And his conservative brother Adam is a bell-ringer for the local church. Church is the done thing in his book, which is titled "I'm a Traditional Man in Absolutely Every Way, Shape, and Form."

Adam looked horrified.

"If your babies die, they'll go to hell!" he preached.

My first thought was: Fuck you.
My second thought was: Fuck you.
My third thought was: I may have gained 6 kilos already, but I can outrun you and kick your skinny ass, white boy, which I'm going to do right now.
My fourth thought was: Fuck you.

There are a lot of things I struggled with about Catholicism. Birth control being a big (and rather fundamental) one, but another one was the ridiculous notion of limbo, a concept that I personally felt was a weak, pathetic, horrific attempt by the church to scare mothers into shuttling their kids off to the Catholic church. Based on the idea that a newborn needed to "wash away the original sin" of sex between the parents, a baptism was the only way that the sin could be removed and the child could go to heaven. No baptism, no golden ticket to the pearly gates. That's the church's view. This view is unforgivable to me, the idea that an innocent child is born guilty and going to hell just because of the actions of the parents. The new pope actually stated recently that there are ideas about changing the idea of limbo, in a suspiciously wimpy there are "grounds to hope that children who die without being baptized can go to heaven", although he has also said "Baptism does not exist to wipe away the "stain" of original sin, but to initiate one into the Church". So really, no true progress there.

My response to the Pope's recent discussion on limbo, which made me wildly angry, is along the lines of "Bite me", which goes partway to explaining why I'm a lapsed Catholic. Also, it's why I'm probably going to hell myself, but as I've said before I'll be manning the margarita machine down there, so stop on by for a free cold frosty one.

My response to Adam was somewhat more measured. "Our chlidren are not going to die, nor are they going to hell," I said calmly.

And I actually felt calm, too. Despite the flashed-up feeling I had about being told my kids may go to the fiery hot spot in the south, I felt calm and resolute. His reaction only served to reinforce my stance. I may have been through therapy to stop seeing my life so black and white, but it didn't mean grey applies to my kids yet.

"And the kids are going to be British citizens?" Adam fires off.

"Yes, of course," I reply. "They're going to be both American and British." This is also non-negotiable for us. The children will have the citizenship of both parents. Melissa and Jeff are both English and Swedish citizens and our two kids will be American and English. Angus and I have already discussed this and we feel it's very important.

"So are you going to move with them to America?" Adam asks.

I had prepared myself for that one.

"No, we don't see moving back to America at any point in the future," I reply.

He nods, still assessing me. I know I'm under scrutiny as he's sure that his Jane - who is about the nicest, gentlest person I know - is scheming to move back with their two kids to the Phillipines. I think it's more likely she gets her ass engraved with the words "I like big butts" than witness her moving back to the Phillipines, but hey - it's his suspicion. I am not happy with the idea that someone might view me as a walking Sperm Donor Detector - I am not with Angus purely for his semen morphology which, while impressive, is not what drew me to him. Angus has not outlived his "usefulness". Yes, we may be knocked up, but I'm with him for the very long haul, a family is just another step in this.

I'm a bit angry with Adam, but this is just the way he is. I actually really like him most of the time, he's good company and (usually) a very nice chap. He's just very black and white about issues in life. Traditional triumphs over modern every time. He makes outrageous comments he later has to back down over, and we've seen him have to do it time and time again. I know he doesn't dislike me, but as a divorcee younger foreign woman who has successfully "seduced" his older brother, I suppose I am held with some element of conscious study. Is she ok, or any minute now will her Black Widow tendancies come out?

"We're not planning on moving to America," I reiterate. "But we'd love to move to Australia or New Zealand someday, so that's always a possibility!" It's true, we would very much like to move there, only we have decided we shouldn't while Angus' two kids are still in school and can fly to see him monthly.

This was also not very popular.

Sister-in-law Jane looked relieved I'd taken the heat off. She'd confessed to me under a vow of secrecy that she and her husband (Angus' youngest brother) are thinking of moving their family to Malaysia or Singapore in the near future. I was glad to be of assistance.

It didn't really upset me too much. I'd been sinking my battleships all day anyway.

-H.

*Teresa and Ms. Pants excepted, of course.

Posted by: Everydaystranger at 07:24 AM | Comments (30) | Add Comment
Post contains 2055 words, total size 12 kb.

1 My take on kids before marriage is that kids are way harder than marriage so if you can make it through the kids then the marriage was meant to be! I am like you in the sense that I am a bit jaded by marriage and don't see it as a necessity.

Posted by: impossiblejane at May 11, 2007 10:06 AM (eihy3)

2 Jane is right. Kids are way harder than marriage. Having a baby is a stupid reason to get married. Stick to your guns. "Bastard" is an outdated term with no real meaning, (Of course, now the babies no longer the Lemonheads in MY head. They're the "Little Bastards". *lol*) However, you will someday find yourself exasperated enough to actually USE the word yourself. Kids are like that. ;-)

Posted by: ~Easy at May 11, 2007 11:34 AM (vL8BC)

3 um, the Catholic Church stance has changed. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18296718/site/newsweek/ i agree about people touching pregnant women's bellies...it's totally invasive. However, on the flip side, i have also experienced once rational female acquaintances or colleagues grabbing MY hand and placing it on their belly for a number of reasons... Uh, thanks, but no thanks.

Posted by: ROSY at May 11, 2007 11:48 AM (HJuyv)

4 Rosy-thanks for that link. I'd thought I heard BBC report the same, but a Google search didn't reward me with an answer! Far be it from me to say Newsweek is wrong, but I do remember being taught that limbo was a "milder, gentler version of hell".

Posted by: Helen at May 11, 2007 12:03 PM (CCyzl)

5 I think the tendency toward belly touching has changed. I'm 9 months at this point and no one has even attempted to touch my belly without my invitation first. I agree with you on marriage, do it your time and your way. I would hate to spend thousands on a honeymoon where I'm limited to not drinking or doing anything remotely fun. As for your future brother in law, I'd have the same gut instinct response. Sadly, I tend to say what I'm thinking quite a bit too. I applaud you on keeping your cool. You're a better woman then me.

Posted by: Minawolf at May 11, 2007 12:09 PM (svbR5)

6 Belly touching? That's a law-suit waiting to happen Here's one of the most important pieces of ADvice (not a--vice) I think parents need to get. It's such common sense and yet one of the hardest things to do. Present a united front (even when you're not in agreement). This seems so simple, but at some point one of you is going to have a "rule" or "rules" that the other one utterly disagrees with. One doesn't want the kids jumping on the couch and the other thinks it's perfectly fine. One doesn't want food in the living room, the other is fine with it. One doesn't want the 5 year old on the roof, the other thought it was fun....but I digress. Once I asked my two angels if they wanted to do something (I can't remember what). They said, "Mom doesn't let us to do that." Thinking it was a completely stupid rule, I unwisely said, "Mom isn't here." So the next time they wanted to do it, mom said no, and they replied, "Dad lets us do it." Don't you know there were heated "discussions" that night. And the next time they wanted to do something "forbidden" when she wasn't there, I said your mom doesn't want you doing that, and they said (you guessed it) "Mom isn't here." Kids instinctively know how to play one parent against another to get what they want. You don't have to agree on everything, and it's probably even good if your kids know you don't agree on everything; but it's paramount to present a united front. Otherwise the parent that doesn't like the rule is acting like a big, rebellious sibling rather than a parent. He/she is making the other parent look bad in the eyes of the children and allowing the children to do what's forbidden. Plus it can cause children to develop a "favorite". Sorry it was so long.

Posted by: Solomon at May 11, 2007 12:45 PM (al5Ou)

7 I also gave off the "touch me and die" vibe when I was pregnant - and so never had the problem of anyone touching my belly! I admire your ability to stand your ground on things that are important to you. I caved and had my daughter baptised, and took her to church for a long time. I felt really strongly that I wanted her to make her own choice, but my family drove me insane for awhile. Thankfully, despite the church and baptism and all that, my daughter (now 13) has chosen to follow my faith path, which is more ecclectic wiccan.

Posted by: Tracy at May 11, 2007 01:10 PM (zv3bS)

8 I can't touch your belly? WHAT? But I just randomly touch peoples bellys, pregnant or not, because you know, it's so normal. I'm joking, I think it's a bit of an invasion of personal space, and wouldn't appreciate it myself. So how about I just send the lemonheads (and you) hugs from the internet?

Posted by: Ange at May 11, 2007 01:35 PM (DGWM7)

9 Damn it I hate when people call me "Ange". Friggen'a. It (computer) usually pulls my full name when I start typing... damn it.

Posted by: Angela at May 11, 2007 01:36 PM (DGWM7)

10 My MIL has been pushing us for some time (two years) to baptise our two-year-old. For a long time we said "we'll see". The last time she brought it up, my husband told her outright "no", and the expression on her face was priceless. I agree that you and A are doing the right thing. You have conviction in your beliefs, both (non-)religious and otherwise, and are thinking about the welfare and longevity of your family. I applaud you for standing up to those beliefs in spite of the nasty looks from the rest of the family.

Posted by: Tinker at May 11, 2007 02:10 PM (HGoEM)

11 Good for you for keeping things civil with the butthead and for avoiding implosion afterwards. I would've been thinking stabbity thoughts at him.

Posted by: lynD at May 11, 2007 02:49 PM (2F9Ak)

12 No one touched my belly, and no one really asked either. I think one or two times I said, "Here feel it." Times must be changing.

Posted by: Judi at May 11, 2007 03:07 PM (wREjb)

13 Our children aren't baptised, if someone said something similar to me I'd say "Well my children do need to be with their mother don't they!" OK poor attempt at humor.

Posted by: Judi at May 11, 2007 03:08 PM (wREjb)

14 "Stabbity" is going to be my new word of the week. I love it.

Posted by: Helen at May 11, 2007 03:34 PM (CCyzl)

15 It just balls me when people get in other people's faces about getting married. We got married at a "traditional time" (right after college), but ONLY because it made more financial sense. Otherwise, we didn't care. We were together, that's what counted for us. Get married when it makes sense for you. Whether that's a traditional white-dress ceremony when the Lemonheads are old enough to toddle down the aisle with Melissa and Jeff (how precious would that be?), or between pushes in the labor and delivery ward (a la Rene Russo in Lethal Weapon 4). You didn't let anyone tell you when to get knocked up, so why should they say anything about the wedding? It's almost ironic that some idiot from the internet has more confidence in your commitment, and what that means for raising your kiddoes than the family does..... One piece of a$$vice, FWIW. From my perspective as a developmental neuroscientist, I agree with your dad. Protein, and especially meat protein is very very very important for brain development. Not like kittens, who MUST have meat, but the less protein that the bebes have to convert, the better it is for them. I know you and your doctors are making sure that you are keeping up with the protein now, but just something to consider for their (independent eating) future. By the time they are old enough to choose for themselves, their brains won't need the extra protein anymore. Hugs and hugs and hugs! And teeny weeny hugs for the lemonheads.

Posted by: caltechgirl at May 11, 2007 03:46 PM (r0kgl)

16 a traditional white-dress ceremony I'd go that route, but after 2 divorces and 2 kids, I'm pretty sure the dress would catch on fire

Posted by: Helen at May 11, 2007 03:58 PM (CCyzl)

17 Hey! Yet another perk of being pregnant again at 40 -- no one (except one very strange woman at the local Albertsons) DARED touch me. It's really not an issue of pregnancy. I have a bubble. RESPECT MY BUBBLE. That's all I'm asking. I'm glad to see that things are moving right along with ye. I do have a personal story to impart -- I was not married to my first child's father when I fell pregnant with him. Hey. It was the late 80's and we were young. And drunk. Anyway. You might want to prepare yourself for the hormonal thing. Because for me? I went to tour the hospital at five months pregnant and after that, I insisted that we marry before I delivered HIS CHILD. I was a freakin' hormonal wreck with that first kid. Your mileage may vary.

Posted by: Margi at May 11, 2007 04:22 PM (eO7hI)

18 Helen, That picture of you today is wonderful and it gives me such hope. I had a breast reduction in January 2007 and I am so worried about my red scars. Yours look wonderful and now I feel so much better about myself. That surgrey was the best thing I ever did, thank you for posting that pic. Without even knowing it you made my day from so very far away. Monica

Posted by: Monica at May 11, 2007 04:30 PM (GHyUE)

19 I'm so glad that no one said anything to me about a christening. I'd have pretty much said fuck you out loud, but I'm really crass like that. Also, you can always wear a shirt that says you have a contagious rash. There were very few people that touched me. And it was with permission. I give off that same air. It's called eau de fart.

Posted by: statia at May 11, 2007 04:31 PM (KcrOI)

20 I knew I liked you. We didn't have our (4) children baptized and had lots and lots of family members letting us know that our children would probably be going to hell. I, like you, feel it is a personal decision to be made by said children when they're old enough to have feelings about it. As far as them going to hell or limbo or whatever because of something WE, their parents, did... that's just silly. I mean, Hubs and I have had this discussion lots of times. We believe in a higher power, but to say that all the little children in Africa or whereever are going to hell just because some missionary didn't "save" them... oh, c'mon... let's be real. Sorry. Hit a sore note there. Also, I'd like to put it on the record that no one even attempted to touch my belly with any of the kids. Except Hubs... and I made him. The marriage thing? Whatever you decide with be the "right" thing. Everyone is different. In case some people weren't paying attention, it is YOUR life. Duh.

Posted by: sue at May 11, 2007 04:48 PM (WbfZD)

21 Oh you know I would never touch that belly without asking first, and would expect to be bitch slapped if I didn't. ;-) I am proud of you for standing your ground. Being good parents is what is important-a piece of paper that says you legally share a last name with someone does not a good parent make. Of course, I am not baptized, nor are my kids. I don't believe in any of that rubbish. Live a good life, treat others as you want to be treated, and have some type of moral standing-that is what I believe. It is the Church of Teresa you could say. My mom and her siblings were never baptized. Eight years ago as my 42 yr. old aunt lay in a hospital bed, about to be disconnected from her life support (she was legally brain dead after suffering a stroke), my distraught grandma had her baptized. Afterwards, the priest looked at my grandma and said 'this is no guarantee that she will still not go to hell'. I could not fucking believe it. Way to pour salt into an already raw wound.

Posted by: Teresa at May 11, 2007 04:51 PM (rINp1)

22 It's interesting to see how people use their relegious ideals as weapons to manipulate others into doing things a certain way...and usually it's all served up with a big dose of guilt. That's of course if you buy into their ideas of what is right and wrong. This is the very thing that starts wars. Now, we all come away with your BIL Adam trying to be helpful and having good intentions, but if I were you in that situation I would have had to slap the stupid right out of him....seriously.

Posted by: Heidi at May 11, 2007 05:39 PM (Wkgvd)

23 they will be missing out on their rights! Huh? And the baptizing thing; I don't get it. So all the children ever born who were not baptized all went to hell? That doesn't sound like a very sensible plan to me since there have been billions of people who were born and died without having ever HEARD of baptism or even Jesus. But I guess they don't count. ;-P Honestly, WHY do so many religions make God into such a total ASSHOLE? "Here, you only get to heaven if you're baptized. What's that? You've never heard of it? Hey, SUCKS TO BE YOU!" Sounds like you handled yourself wonderfully. I'm sure I would have gotten into a screamer; I don't handle that kind of thing very well. Good for you.

Posted by: The other Amber at May 11, 2007 05:43 PM (zQE5D)

24 Helen, If you WERE a Care Bear - what would your Care Bear name be? Love that and will have to use it in the future no doubt!!

Posted by: Sarnie at May 11, 2007 05:57 PM (58uel)

25 No salt on the rim of my margarita, please. I can sympathize with you here - I'm engaged to a lapsed Catholic, who pretends he's a devout Catholic for his family. I'm agnostic as well, and spend a lot of my time wondering what I've gotten myself into with these people. Anyway, great job standing up for yourself and your children! You're a fierce mama lioness already!!

Posted by: Heather at May 11, 2007 06:51 PM (s0rhn)

26 I often forget that you and Ang haven't officially married yet. I always think of you as a unit anyway. If people took a clue from your relationship and put half as much work into their relationships as you and he do, the divorce rate across the world would plummet. (That word looks wrong. Whatever.) Regarding your belleh, know this: while I might note-zerbert you all the hell over the place, I will always *ask* before I really zerbert your belleh or molest your baby casing. However, if I'm just wrasslin' with you and it's not about babies, I reserve the right to zerbert you at any given moment.

Posted by: Ms. Pants at May 11, 2007 08:17 PM (+p4Zf)

27 I have an Aunt and Uncle who never married and have 2 beautiful young adult children. I have always pointed to their relationship as one of the most stable I have ever known. Their parenting is beautiful to watch, the respect they have for one another is a joy to watch. You are a strong and wonderful woman, and you should make every decision based on what is best for you and Angus. This doesn't mean that you will always make the perfect choice, but you will learn from those choices as well. I am amazed at how calmly and appropriately you were able to deal with the questions you faced. I am a lapsed Catholic, agnostic I suppose is the best definition. And things like what Theresa described are why I left the Catholic church. How dare anyone be so certain that what *they* believe is the only truth. Having just gotten married (on my schedule age 41)and had a fairly small ceremony--I agree with your thoughts that the stress is nor reasonable at this point. You just continue to love Angus and those Lemonheads. (I guess your post touched some nerves for me as well--sorry to blather so long.)

Posted by: sophie at May 12, 2007 04:44 PM (1HOa8)

28 On a purely legal point the kids automatically pick up the citizenship of both parents by operation of law - it's just a matter of whether you/they get around to registering it right away. Another thing that evokes shock horror in people like your Mr Adam is that kids born overseas to American parents are "natural born" and can probably even run for US President (once they're 35 yo old ;-) Note the Constitution says 'natural born' not 'native born'. P.S. good for you for not letting religious nutters (or anyone) push you around!

Posted by: Steve P at May 13, 2007 02:31 AM (pcmJs)

29 Ah, don't we all love hypocrites who are more concern about whether other ppl's children going to hell than their own sins ?

Posted by: Lisa Y at May 14, 2007 02:30 AM (Y9uqm)

30 Can I suggest a full packet of those no soak ready to eat apricots. If you eat all of them you might have a catastrophic result in about 20 minutes (you don't need to ask how I know this, I only did it once) If it works at all you can then adjust the dosage to suit. Alternatively you could stuff them up every available orifice of the potential in law (except from the sound of it you'd need more than one bag). We didn't christen our son, when he's of an age he can make his own promises if it suits him to. My mother astounded me by coming out with all this claptrap about being received into the family of the church. So unexpected. I asked her when she'd last been over the church step except for births, deaths and marriages and that ended the conversation. Like everything else in kiddyworld, it's your choice and no one else's business. If it helps at all I understand that regular church attendance here runs at less than 10% of the population so Mr Average is actually not average at all.

Posted by: Caroline M at May 14, 2007 08:39 AM (x3QDi)

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