March 12, 2007

That Which We Call a Rose, By Any Other Word Would Smell As Sweet

Sidestepping my real life for a minute, there's something on my mind and I'd really like to get it out, not least because I simply don't want it in there, but also because I'm a little busy dealing with a few other things and would like to reserve my resources with those issues.

Over at Ilyka's is a post which has really fucked me off, and not just because of the reponse you get if you come out against the principle of the post (this is not the same as "Ilyka has really fucked me off", so no attacking). In said post I commented, and I'm afraid I did come out in the beginning with guns already blazing when I should have taken a deep breath and addressed it calmly (this is why I don't comment on most sites). Regardless I still stand by what I said, even if my delivery was off.

The truth is, I don't mind the word "cunt".

I know a lot of people consider it offensive, not least women. It's a base word, an edgy term. It's a slang term for female anatomy, but then many terms are. Some feminists, in particular, consider it an ad hominem attack. Attack a woman by her anatomy is, I believe, a double slander-you're attacking the gender twice, and using a vagina as an offensive term.

I get that some people are offended, I really do. I'm just not. I don't care if people use the term. The truth is, I honestly hear it a lot more living in the UK than I ever did in the States. This is the case for several terms-when Angus used the word "Jap" a long time ago I came unglued. The term is incredibly offensive to me, while the word "Jap" is used here and isn't really considered an insult. But as I was so angry about it that it has been removed from Angus' vernacular. There is a learning curve here, and it's not always easy.

But with the exception of Angus' parents (who still use the term "fiddlesticks"), everyone I have regular contact with uses that shocking "c-word". It's not like it's used in every other sentence, some people I work with use it once in a blue moon while one guy I know uses it a lot. But in my experience it is used more, and it's far less shocking here, than back in the U.S.

I even use it myself, and with one exception (the Swunt), when I use it I don't mean it in anger or in a derogatory way. I don't use any vulgar names in anger, actually, and neither does Angus. But I don't just randomly walk around using the word, and in general I do a "swear check" with people I meet-I won't curse until I hear them do so. If they swear I'll match it. If they don't I will refrain, just in case I offend. If they tell me a term is offensive, I make it a point to never use it. Amongst my friends and work mates though, we will swear. And of the entire range of swear words, we use them all.

I do consider myself a feminist. I used to be a very militant one, to the point where I did think the spelling of the word "women" needed to be changed to "womyn". I used to be very aggressive about my feminist belief structure, and violating that was not only a personal attack on me but I viewed it as an invalidation of women as a whole.

I've mellowed though. A lot. Now I just think names are exactly that-they're just nouns. They don't define me. As a result, I don't get remotely offended if someone is angry with me and calls me a bitch, a cunt, or a whore. Words like that said in anger simply go in one ear and out the other, I figure the person has brought it down to the level of a bar fight and this is the best they've got. None of those words used at me in anger phase me in the slightest. You want to call me a cunt? Whatever. Maybe I am.

I myself say the word. I also call other women bitches, particularly if I think they're being one (but I don't think I've ever called another woman a bitch to her face in my life, it's just something I think.) "Whore" is a word I use on a daily basis, but also never in anger. Anything can be labelled a whore, and the following list (which is not inclusive) are some of the things which have been called "whore" around me:

- the computer
- my London commute
- the cats
- the dog
- parking meters
- myself
- Angus
- my period
- the weather

and so on. It's not a personal attack on women to me. To me, it's just a word.

I'm pretty free with the use of the word "dick", "dickhead", and "dickass" as well. I'm liberal with my vulgar slang, generally because I like to swear (and if this is where you step in to tell me it's not eloquent to curse well, then, fuck off.) While I don't use the word "pussy", it's not because I get offended by it, I just think it's weird calling things by an improper word for "cat". I don't think of pussy as a synonym for women's genitalia, as to me that word could only be uttered by 50 year-old pervs with ridiculous mustaches who have been out of touch with the new slang. It's not offensive so much as it's pathetic (the same applies to the word "cock" to me. It feels like shiny exposed chest hair covered in gold chains rather than a demeaning term).

I don't think these terms demean women so much as they're simply demeaning, and demeaning to both sexes equally. All of these terms play the same game of riding the gender line. "Cunt" is perhaps as bad as "prick" which is perhaps as bad as "bitch" which is perhpas as bad as "dick". It's true a lot more negative terms come from female-associated nouns than male ones, and most of the male terms which were insulting have, over time, perhaps become less invective simply because fashion changed-men went around insulting other men by calling them "curs" in the Victorian times, but you don't see people throwing down over being called the equivalent of a hunting dog these days. Perhaps as the rise of the female role occurred, so did the insolence about female terms.

Angus and I are similarly aligned-he could care less if someone starts an attack on him and calls him a poof (English slang for gay), a cunt, a pussy, a bitch, or a dick. He figures they have nothing better to do with their time if they resort to bar slang. I understand many men find it highly offensive to be called a bitch or - perhaps worse - to be called a gay term. But to both of us they're just insults, and ones which can be attained once you hit the 10 year-old level or watch TV after 9 pm, either way. If I get called those terms I simply think someone isn't very creative at all, if this is all they can pull out of their ass.

To me an insult is more personal and more intuitive. A real insult to me is a clever one, one which hits home as a person, instead of as a gender. If you're going to use terms I can find written on the inside of any truckstop bathroom door, then I'm just going to tune you out. Call me crazy to my face, for example, and I will throw down. Tell me I'm selfish and chances are good that an epic battle is about to occur. Things that are incredibly mild said in anger can also really get to me-Saturday Angus was angry with me and called me an idiot, something which is a generally innocuous word. Said in anger though, it became hurtful, and he did apologize. Ironically, one of the most hurtful words I've had thrown at me is "American"-not because I'm embarassed about being an American or it's a derogatory thing to be so, but the context of the way it was sent my way assured me that the person did not mean it positively, and I took real offense to that.

Maybe I should be angry about using female anatomy as an insult. Maybe as a woman I should consider it an egregious affront. But the truth is, I simply find there are more important fights to battle against the establishment. Getting "cunt" removed from the popular battle lingo is your battle? OK then, and good luck. It just doesn't anger me. I'm more angry over the pay scale being unfair between men and women. I'm angry that the industry I'm in is far more likely to promote a man over a woman, even when the skill sets are the same. THOSE are my battles.

Now if you'll excuse me, work is being a whore, and I have to deal with it.

-H.

Posted by: Everydaystranger at 09:22 AM | Comments (19) | Add Comment
Post contains 1573 words, total size 8 kb.

1 I agree with a lot of what you've said here. When I moved back from Canada I was a bit shocked at the proliferation of the use of the 'c-word' here in Ireland, and I found it offensive. However having worked in IT for the last 12 years the air around my desk is normally a deep blue colour. I can swear like the saltiest sailor. I do the same thing you do though when I meet people - that is to refrain from swearing until I know if they are comfortable with it or swear themselves.

Posted by: Elimare at March 12, 2007 10:34 AM (NWmFg)

2 What an interesting commentary on international slang and insults. I reserve the c-word for referring to the absolute worst examples of the female species, the kind that give the vast majority a bad name. It's not something I use lightly (and rarely do). My personal worst is to call me an asshole. If I'm being a dickhead, say so, it's OK because at that given moment I just might be. Same goes for jerk, or anal, or even "Don't be an asshole about it" I can handle. But my wife once called me an asshole over something trivial and I deliberately slept on the couch for three nights. To me, "asshole" refers to the worst of the male species, the very ones that Ilyka claims uses the c-word. My wife was previously married to one, and I swore to myself and her that I'd never sink to that level, which is what made the insult more painful. Be interesting to see other people's take on the subject.

Posted by: diamond dave at March 12, 2007 10:46 AM (jofqp)

3 I work with cops so the swearing is pretty much a part of the vocabulary. In addition, I regularly hear new and interesting combinations, and if one strikes my fancy I'll use it myself. "Bitch-ass" is my current favorite.

Posted by: ~Easy at March 12, 2007 11:31 AM (zjve3)

4 Wow just went and read the post and comments. That was interesting. I am in the belief that if a word offends a individual, I just don't use it around them. And I expect the same in return. That C one, thats a edgy one for a lot of people.

Posted by: justme at March 12, 2007 11:43 AM (3mCBU)

5 The word has never offended me either. I've actually felt badly that it didn't offend me. But it just doesn't.

Posted by: Minawolf at March 12, 2007 12:25 PM (75szC)

6 i have no problem with swearing, and have been known to turn heads with my frequent use of the f-bomb in public. i think the c-word, like any other word, can have different connotations and meaning depending on the context. for example, i don't mind if some random person calls me a bitch out of anger. i just don't find it that offensive. however, mr. geeky has been banned from calling me a bitch since the day we first started dating. it means so much more and is much more hurtful when it comes from someone close to you.

Posted by: geeky at March 12, 2007 02:26 PM (ziVl9)

7 I am much the same. Those words do not faze me in the least. I am much more hurt if someone I care about insults me with a personal insult. Cunt, bitch, whore-they mean nothing to me. They are just words in most cases, and around here hubby and I call the computer, weather, busted dishwasher, etc. 'whore', our male cat is often called a 'bitch', and the whole family-including mom and dad-all throw the word 'dick' around freely. Cunt is a word I never use, but not because I deem it offensive or hurtful, or anti-woman, but because I just don't use it. Then again there are a lot of words not in my regular vocabulary-that is just one of them. My parents told me a long time ago that words really only have the value you give them, and I have tried to live by that. I simply refuse to be defined by a certain set of terms. Most people who use that word as an insult to women already have a specific idea of women in general, and therefore are not worth a rat's ass to me anyway. Swear check-that is priceless.

Posted by: Teresa at March 12, 2007 02:31 PM (q6spX)

8 I think that it helps to look at the history of words. My co-workers and I have had some good discussions about the N word. Like the word Cunt I think that many African Americans have been trying to reclaim the word so that the negativity is stripped from it. However, the N word holds a lot of hatred and terror to an older African American generation who grew up during the time of slavery and the civil rights movement. My co-worker was born in the 50's and dealt with those hateful words when they meant something entirely different. You can explain over and over again to her about how it shouldn't be hateful anymore but it still is. Words are strong. Very strong. A close friend/lover calling you an idiot hurts. Idiot on the grand scale of words we have available to us is not really that strong. Words can pack a punch. And everyone has their own triggers. There have been days that I was called a bitch and couldn't care less. I remember another time when I was called a bitch and couldn't stop crying. I realize for myself that I have seen the Vagina Monologues several times and that the word CUNT means nothing to me. Sometimes I feel it can be rather empowering. But I am sensitive that it might be extremely hurtful to someone else. Fag is another harsh word here in the states. Fags were the wood that was used to burn gays at the stake. So while some may not even care about it, to others it can be extremely hurtful. Good post on language. This discussion has been taking place at my work lately.

Posted by: Jane at March 12, 2007 02:41 PM (eihy3)

9 I have a good friend(female) who absolutely can't stand the word "pussy", but doesn't mind "cunt" at all. My guess is that she'd be pissed off at someone trying to dictate to her what is and what isn't offensive. As for me, I don't really have an opinion on the subject. I won't complain about other people's choic of words, especially since I tend towards the potty mouth myself. Except around my children, of course. I would hope that they turn out better than me.

Posted by: physics geek at March 12, 2007 02:58 PM (KqeHJ)

10 This is just hysterical to me since I finally posted again in my blog last week about this very word myself but I have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REACTION to it than yours, any of these commenters, or the ones at the other blogger. Of course, I don't know why I expected anything different, since the subject of the chat I posted deals with the fact I know I'm a strange bird. The topic was more about my lamenting being wired so strangely rather than the word itself, heh. That being said, there really isn't a "word" that offends me. *Malicious intent with words* offends me, but not the words themselves. Michael Richards screaming, "You're a nigger" over and over again at his customers was extremely offensive because of his *intent*. Friends calling each other "nigger" as a friendly salutation, not at all. If Dan called me a bitch during a fight, woe be to Dan. I'd probably be so shocked, I'd yell, "I divorce thee" three times in a row. (Oh wait...only the guy can do that. And we're not Muslim. Well...rats!) But if we're being humorous (or something else...heh) it is completely different.

Posted by: Amber (the other one) at March 12, 2007 04:06 PM (zQE5D)

11 I have a pottymouth so nothing shocks me, except my British ex-husband used to use the word "Dickshit" all the time...every time it flew out of his mouth I shook my head. I didn't quite understand what was trying to convey with that term.

Posted by: Heidi at March 12, 2007 04:09 PM (3I9Ia)

12 First, I'll say that I can cuss as well as anyone, but except at home, I choose not to. My mom always said when you resort to slang and cursing, it denotes a lack of vocabulary and self-control. I don't like some of those words, but it has more to do with the anger and tone of voice used when they are spoken than the actual words themselves. Only smart people can come out with good insults, and those don't usually make use of curse words, but words which are just a cut above the insultee's level of expertise (or intelligence). Now, I'll go and read that post and the comments.

Posted by: kenju at March 12, 2007 04:12 PM (L8e9z)

13 Only smart people can come out with good insults, and those don't usually make use of curse words, but words which are just a cut above the insultee's level of expertise (or intelligence). Exactly. Insults are clever. Hurling swear words isn't, which in my book, makes for boring insults.

Posted by: Helen at March 12, 2007 04:15 PM (VNoVx)

14 The words one chooses and how one says them say much about the speaker. How one chooses to hear and interpret those words says much about the listener.

Posted by: amelia at March 12, 2007 04:18 PM (m+C+k)

15 Insults are clever. Churchill was famous for insulting people in such a fashion. I'll see if I can correctly remember a couple: 1) He once called a political opponent a "sheep in sheep's clothing". 2) Another opponent he called "a humble man, with much to be humble for." That's how I like my insults: clever, but rhetorically slicing to the bone. Only my closest friends and family members know me well enough to insult me that fashion. Fortunately, most of them are nicer than me and choose not to.

Posted by: physics geek at March 12, 2007 09:32 PM (KqeHJ)

16 personally, I have a love-love relationship with the "seven words you can't say on TV", so being told that I Can't Understand Normal Thinking, doesn't faze in the slightest. Those words are almost funny, you know. And really, they're fun to say. An insightful zip, however, can reduce me to tears in an instant. No "bad words" necessary.

Posted by: caltechgirl at March 12, 2007 09:53 PM (r0kgl)

17 I tend to change my curse of choice depending on where I am. In London I am fine using Cunt, in Boston or New York it's a variation on Fuck, here in California I find myself using Pussy a lot. The boyfriend is quite friendly with men who fly planes for the military and he often has interesting combinations of nouns and verbs ie: a bowl of fuck. I am a big fan of interestingly used curse words. I like 'em smart AND dirty.

Posted by: Some Girl at March 12, 2007 10:14 PM (EfxHp)

18 I can actually cuss in seven different languages - a consequence of having been a factory worker in Chicago. In Tagalog there is an insult that is unspellable but translates as "the cream that forms under one's foreskin". Have to agree with you Helen, the ones that cut the deepest are the ones that are the most personal.

Posted by: maolcolm at March 13, 2007 10:19 AM (KpKui)

19 A few thoughts are swirling around my head right now. 1. I am a total fan of the word cunt. I also really like the word twat, but it took the Scottish boys being over here for quite a while before I got used to hearing them. 2. You petitioned to have it called the winter ovester, didn't you? 3. As for good insults are clever... "Whatever... COCKBOY!" Sorry. I don't know if you'll even know what those references are from, but I have faith that you do so I'm posting them. So there.

Posted by: amy t. at March 13, 2007 07:52 PM (fm3Rv)

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