My whole view on children has been shifting quite rapidly lately, but let's set that aside for a moment and let me vent about something.
On New Year's Day, Partner Unit's best friend Hasse and his girlfriend Annika stopped by for coffee and muffins at our house, joining me, Dear Mate and Partner Unit on a calm day.
Well, at least it had been calm. But then Hasse and Annkia showed up in the driveway with their three children, three boys-Annika's 7-year-old son from a previous relationship Hasse's two from a previous relationship (ages 6 and 2). We had never met these kids before. I now understand why, they were likely still being put together by Dr. Frankenstein and so weren't yet ready for public viewing.
It was something out of a Steve Martin film.
Let me clarify one thing, if you don't mind. In Sweden, it is illegal to hit your children. In fact, children are provided with a telephone number that they can call if they are ever hit, and then the parents are in supreme high hot water if said number is called. Now, in theory this is a good idea. I mean, we shouldn't be walking around using children as target accuracy practice or making them cower in case of any sudden movement. That being said, there are a few times when I can think a short swat on the back of the leg can terminate a situation and end a potentially disastrous public confrontation between angry child and frazzled mother.
When I was a child, I was only spanked once, and that was for playing with fire. I think I deserved that one.
I was raised with the pretty strict motto that children should be seen and not heard. And that we should be unfailingly polite, always. And if we ever talked back or hit our parents...well, the words "organ donation" come to mind as a consequence.
So it was that three little hellions were unleashed on our house, shattering the peace that had been New Year's.
It was quite clear that Annika's son (whom she had always heretofore referred to as "my sweet little boy") was the ringleader. Dear Mate nicknamed him The Thug, and that name was perfect. He was a little terrorist.
The second he came in the door, he had whipped the other two kids into a frenzy. Our collie, Ed the Evil One, was immediately on the spot. Fortunately for him, he is a very sweet-natured and patient dog who absolutely loves children, although I imagine he will need a little holiday from them for a while. The two oldest boys (The Thug and Thug Junior) starting crashing about the living room with a set of plastic golf clubs (I kid you not), bashing them about and clubbing anything in sight. The littlest one (called Thug Lite) just screamed at the top of his lungs.
Then The Thug took Thug Junior upstairs. I heard much screaming and bashing, and I raced upstairs to find the two of them trying to beat our cats to death with said plastic clubs. When I told them no, they protested their innocence but I confiscated said clubs anyway. They then set about sliding down the bannisters and trying to capture the cats. They went into the cellar downstairs, tearing around and trying to torture the animals.
At that point, our normally extremely placcid and friendly cats just managed to avoid detection and tore through the living room, roughly the size of beavers with their hair puffed up to three times the normal circumference, and wedged themselves under the couch, where they stayed the rest of the stay, four glowing eyes looking out under the couch in a mixture of sheer terror, hatred and revulsion.
The Thug and Thug Junior then set about making "traps" for the cats, which included going through the contents of my dresser drawers and stealing our flashlights. This did not sit well with me-I hate having people touch my things, so this set my nerves right on edge. Their parents just rolled their eyes and smiled in a "kids-will-be-kids" attitude. Dear Mate looked as though he would murder them, as he has two half-Swedish half-English kids himself, and he would never tolerate that behavior.
I couldn't concentrate on Annika and Hasse, and truthfully when the coffee was out, I was a bad hostess-I didn't offer or make any more. I just wanted them to go, honestly. I was never so glad to see people leave. Just as they were leaving, the monsters were using Ed's sleeping cushion to body-surf down the stairs.
When the hellions finally left, Dear Mate, Partner Unit and I collapsed. Exhausting. And no, I don't have children and of course I would say this, but for the record:
My kids will never be like that.
-H.
PS-I have been having many problems with my pc, and in general most commenting systems aren't working for me just now (weirdly enough, the mu.nu system works fine for me). For instance, examples of some of them that I have tried commenting on Ilyka's and Melodrama's sites, but I think I am having issues with Java. I also am having fantastic problems with my pc timing out. I'm still reading you guys, just not able to worship you publicly and comment for a while. I'm around. Just quiet.
PPS-I have a pretty good shot at a job with a UK company that will sponsor visas. Send happy thoughts their way, so that they will hire me, 'K?
PPPS-Update on the fuckwittage that is my personal life tomorrow.
1
Good luck with the job.
As to those kids, they sound like little monsters who deserve a good smack, phone number or not. Sometimes, admittedly as a final resort, but sometimes the only way to get a message across to a kid is forcefully. Kids only know about limits and how to push them; they keep pushing until they get to a point where the costs outway the benefits. Reasoning with them isn't a cost they care about.
Posted by: Simon at January 05, 2004 10:15 AM (FUPxT)
2
Here in Georgia, corporal punishment is actually mandated by law. For exactly such an emergency, I expect.
That's not a question of smacking the kids or not, it's a problem with the parents. You didn't mention even once that the parents tried to do any single thing to correct the kids' behavior and bad actions.
Bad hostess? Fuck that, they were lowsy guests. If they are close friends then let them know they are always welcome back whenever they have babysitters for the kids but those children will never be welcome in your house again. Sound rude? It's nothing compared to the rudeness they inflicted on your household.
Sending kick ass and take name wishes for the job. Good luck, Helen! (When will you know? Is this the same one that wanted to interview just before Christmas?)
Posted by: Jim at January 05, 2004 10:37 AM (fkewd)
3
This is a new one, I am still waiting for the interview for that other one (the other one I have a 50% shot at. This one may be harder to get, but sounds great).
Weirdly enough, looks like I could get a contract with Company X in Tel Aviv now...weird.
Posted by: Helen at January 05, 2004 11:05 AM (b2jDK)
4
Oh my, sounds like you had quite the time with small children! My parents have a store that sells toys. When i'm home to visit i often work for them and it has made me reconsider having children on more than one occassion. The tantrums thrown when a "no" is heard are ridiculous! But i must agree with Jim that it has to do with parents doing anything to stop it. I cringe when these tantrums are pacified by the purchase of the toy that the child was screaming over. I also agree that my children will never be like that
Good luck on the job!!!
And congrats on cutting your hair! It looks fabulous!
Posted by: Laura at January 05, 2004 11:23 AM (blOFA)
5
All the best for the job! You really deserve a decnt break, am sending very positive signals to the powers that be to turn the tides in your favour.
Ah! No wonder you've been so quiet! Now, I know you visit atleast!
As for brats, most kids are not innocent angels at all but manipulative brats who know how to get what they want. I was raised like you to be seen and not heard and I hope my kids will be well-behaved. I shudder sometimes when I see some kids these days. Most are devils and their parents do nothing about it at all.
Posted by: Melodrama at January 05, 2004 11:47 AM (sSn/u)
6
You surely do have a penchant for naming ppl..
The Thug, Thug Junior and Thug Lite!!
lol
Posted by: Lucidly Awake at January 05, 2004 01:33 PM (AVANl)
7
Good luck with the job, as someone who is job hunting in the UK myself i know how hard it is.
As for the hair, you cutie!
As for the kids and Partner Units recent behaviour? Yuk!
Abs x
Posted by: abs at January 05, 2004 01:38 PM (lnpfn)
8
I can't believe your friends, the parents of the thugs from hell, allowed them to behave that way in your home.
When my son was small, he had a thuggish friend with parents just like that, and when he came to my house, he sat in the corner if he misbehaved - didn't matter if his idiot parents were there or not. He learned to behave when I was around. I remember him calling his mother a bitch - he was 5 years old. She said " Bradley, that's not nice", and he said it over and over and over.
Posted by: Beth at January 05, 2004 01:53 PM (igCu1)
9
Helen,
"Spank early; spank often" is my motto; and I have two incredibly adorable, loving, parent-honoring, well adjusted, and sweet daughters (9 and 6 years old).
"So you hit children to teach them not to hit?", one might say. "ABSOLUTELY!!", I respond. Authorities speed to catch speeders (if you have speed limits), imprison kidnappers, and confiscate stolen property. Authorities are accorded behavior their subordinates aren't. Spanking (not beating) is one such behavior for parents.
The younger the child, the more effective are spankings (Plus they can't call that phone number to turn you in); the older the child, the more effective is reasoning.
I have an idea I'll post if spanking is against the law where you live. Go Georgia!!
Posted by: Solomon at January 05, 2004 02:50 PM (t5Pi1)
10
As the mother of a toddler, I must say that there are certain situations that spanking isn't a bad thing. I know that as a child, I was not a child that "time-outs" worked on in any way, shape or form. And my daughter seems to have the exact same attitude. Spanking is not a bad thing. Abuse is, but they are completely different things.
Oh, and I'm thinking REALLY good thoughts for the UK job for you. I really hope you get it!
Posted by: amber at January 05, 2004 02:52 PM (iJZeQ)
11
Er...Solomon? You are joking, yes?
Posted by: Helen at January 05, 2004 03:17 PM (wV+t0)
12
I have two teenagers and they have never acted that way. I have only spanked them once or twice and usually my 'evil eye' does the trick. When faced with children who run-amuck in your house, it is perfectly alright to promise to flush them down the toilet if their behavior does not turn around immediately....the parents will get the message. If the bad behavior continues, then boot all their asses out of your house.
Posted by: Marie at January 05, 2004 03:40 PM (fiFW3)
13
I hope Solomon is not joking - I love the reasoning.
And I want to hear what the alternative idea is if spanking is illegal.
Posted by: Clancy at January 05, 2004 03:57 PM (EGVPL)
14
Helen,
Joking? No. Tongue in cheek? Yes. I believe in lovingly and judiciously spanking children. A parent HAS to have instant obedience from his/her children, and spanking is one of the ways to get it from younger children.
Why instant obedience? My two daughters and I were crossing a street with a median in the middle. I had my hands full and couldn't hold theirs. I said, "Let's go half way across and stop", because traffic had stopped in one direction only. Both took off running. I yelled stop and Angel1 (9 years old) stopped immediately in the median, but Angel2 (my 6 year old) didn't. Fortunately, the oncoming driver was driving defensively and didn't hit her.
When Angel1 was 2, she was getting ready to put a metal object in an electric socket (we were at a friend's house that wasn't "child proof"), and I said, "Angel1, No!", and she stopped immediately. Thug or Thug Junior may have continued and been electricuted.
What if the driver had been changing a cd and not paying attention? My daughter's lack of obedience would have cost her her life. If my older daughter had disobeyed, she may have been electricuted and possibly killed. People think they will get their children's respect and obedience when they're old enough to reason, but often they just get older rebellion.
So I don't really believe in spanking the live long day, but I do believe in lovingly and judiciously spanking a child. And if they rebelliously disobeyed multiple times a day, they got multiple spankings a day, but those were few and far between. And now they almost never get them. Angel1 hasn't had one in more than a year, and I can't remember the last time Angel2 got one. And both are incredibly loving, considerate, and kind-hearted children.
What do you think?
Posted by: Solomon at January 05, 2004 04:03 PM (t5Pi1)
15
H,
Not offering the "permissive units" more coffee doesn't make you a bad hostess. If you had poured coffee ON the thugs/children then maybe... how hot was it?
Tel Aviv?! Uh dear, that's not Chicago! That just won't do! Best of luck anyway. *sniff*
PC
Posted by: Paul USA at January 05, 2004 04:09 PM (bWfDG)
16
The alternative to spanking here in Sweden is to reason with them. I have seen half-hearted efforts at time-outs and such, but in general the kids have the tantrums, do what they want, etc. The kids are not spanked here. What can I say, there's no such thing as "life in prison" here either.
I'm not saying I'm against it, I can see the usage of corporal punishment (and to be honest if I had kids in Sweden I imagine that number is going to be called on me), but ONLY to be administered carefully and in the right situations. Kid screaming unnecessisarily in the shop? A short smack on the bottom can fix it. Children should NEVER be hit in the face, nor should they EVER be hit with objects (belts, branches, etc). I don't think a spanking is the answer to everything, I think that there are other options of discipline (grounding, time-outs, going to bed immediately after dinner, etc).
I also think it depends on the child. To punish me, my mother used to simply need to say: "I'm very disappointed in you", and I would crumble like a tower of cards and totally behave. My sister's reaction to my mother saying that? "Pick up the pieces of your shattered life and move on."
Then what the hell do I know-I only have a dog (who gets put in time-out now, instead of the spankings he got as a puppy. This only because time-outs are way more effective on my very social dog).
Posted by: Helen at January 05, 2004 04:12 PM (wV+t0)
17
PaulUSA, darlin'-I still have more of the Helen World Tour to do
Posted by: Helen at January 05, 2004 04:13 PM (wV+t0)
18
Pretty sure I never want children. Truth of the matter is I enjoy not being responsible for little ones who will drain money away from my early retirement plans.
Besides dont we have enough little people running around the world?
Posted by: Drew at January 05, 2004 04:18 PM (CBlhQ)
19
As they get older, reasoning is more effective; but one can't always reason (nor should they try) very well with a child under 3 or 4. My grandma used to say, "You can't put an adult head on a child." Grandmas are so wise.
And as unpopular as it may sound, "Because I said so" is an appropriate responce to children of all ages.
Posted by: Solomon at January 05, 2004 04:26 PM (t5Pi1)
20
Kids these days.. spoiled brats... anyway Helen, uninsatll java runtime 2.0 and see if that works for you. Look for it in your add/remove programs.
Posted by: pylorns at January 05, 2004 04:43 PM (fD1hc)
21
I'm still in awe of Scratcher's son, who will be 9 next month and *does exactly what you ask him to do*. Not in a kiss-ass way; he was just brought up to respect adults. My jaw dropped the first time we went into a toy store together - he asked for something, was told "no", and said, "okay, dad". Let's clone him at different ages and replace your friends' horrid threesome. Eek.
Posted by: Kaetchen at January 05, 2004 05:37 PM (WZyYB)
22
good luck with the uk job! i've got my fingers and toes crossed.
wow, just reading about those thugs, gave me a headache. i'm not a "spanker," but really there's no excuse for letting your kids run amuck like that in someone else's house! oy!
oh, and i love all the christmas picks. but you put lipstick on for opening presents? i'm never looking good christmas morning, we all look wild and wooly. i think that's part of our tradition though. however, i love the jammies! :-)
Posted by: kat at January 05, 2004 06:35 PM (qEQy+)
23
Wow Helen,
Your much more of a social and generous person than I would be. Hasse and Annika would have been given their marching orders, I wouldn't care how much their "feelings" got hurt. Can they say, "The Moxley Murder"?
We can tell a lot about adults/children by how they treat animals. What some people try to keep hidden about their character shows when they interact with defenseless creatures.
There is nothing better to see than a child/adult tirelessly coax your/any cat(s) to trust them and not betray the trust when the cat decides to cozy up to them.
Best to you for 2004 and as far as employment I'm not worried; you've got skills and drive.
Posted by: Roger at January 05, 2004 06:39 PM (KjAok)
24
I agree, Roger-had they sat down on the floor with their hands out and spent all their time trying to coax my pets (who generally need no coaxing as they are in-your-face loving), then I would've given them all the raisins they could carry.
I think we will take Kaetchen's man's son and clone him. He sounds perfect.
Posted by: Helen at January 05, 2004 06:46 PM (z75/5)
25
And Kat-you betcha lipstick on Christmas morning! I am a lipstick girl, and knew that family would be snaps happy. When you have a big round chipmunk face like mine, you need a big of color to convince people you don't have the mumps
Looking forward to some artwork, darlin'...
Posted by: Helen at January 05, 2004 06:48 PM (z75/5)
26
"My kids will never be like that."
just wait.
Posted by: jim at January 05, 2004 07:03 PM (sCsce)
27
Oi Vey...friends or not, if I had company over that had kids that terrorized my pets and went through my private things, they would be booted out the door and never invited back. I don't give a whit if you don't hit your kids in Sweden, it is not an excuse to allow them to run around like idiots and act so rudely.
Btb: Perhaps I'm not supposed to laugh but what your sister used to say to your mother:
"Pick up the pieces of your shattered life and move on."
Made me laugh so hard. I love that kind of humor.
Good luck on the job!
Posted by: Serenity at January 05, 2004 08:47 PM (k9RaT)
28
I spent saturday upstairs holding my dear puppy as my wife visited downstairs with her friend...and two of her kids. One was afraid of dogs, including sweet ones apparently, so I had to confine the puppy. It wasn't only that, but the kids ran around and screamed like banshees.
I visited blogs and held my tongue. My puppy cried. I wanted to go medieval on some bratty ass. But no, I kept quiet, except for the time I was asked if my puppy dog was bothering me two much and I responded "oh, she's bothering me but at least I still have my eardrums."
I always say the wrong things at the wrong time...
Posted by: Rob at January 05, 2004 09:05 PM (pL1ga)
29
Yes Serenity,
Still smiling at the "Pick up the pieces of your shattered life and move on." bit
Jim of "Just wait"
Are you the Jim of Snooze Button Dreams? If so, your "just wait" is not a threat. Reading about you and your family swings the balance in favor of having a family
Posted by: Roger at January 05, 2004 09:16 PM (KjAok)
30
ack, see i have the chipmunk cheeks but not the lips (like you do!) for lipstick. i look just god awful in the stuff. which is perhaps part of the reason i get mistaken for a 17 year old half the time! lol... guess i'll just have to let people think i have the mumps or that i'm storing acorns for the winter. ;-)
Posted by: kat at January 05, 2004 10:10 PM (qEQy+)
31
I agree that kids are too coddled these days, but that just seemed like bad parenting. They should have grabbed those kids by the arm and told them to sit the heck down.
Posted by: sean at January 06, 2004 01:10 AM (Tsgvl)
32
how cold is it there? I'd have shut them outside for ten minutes. then say behave or you'll be out til your folks go home.
Posted by: melanie at January 06, 2004 10:52 AM (jDC3U)
33
Melanie-it's about -13 today, and was that day, too. But I think the little hellions are adaptable for most environs!
Posted by: Helen at January 06, 2004 11:29 AM (ukW+j)
34
Helen, you are fare more patient than I am, and I am famous for my rocking horse patience around here! Those little critters would have heard my Raised Voice From Hell after the episode with the golf clubs, and would have left the house, willingly or not, with or without their parents, I don't care, when they started going through my stuff. That is NOT acceptable behaviour.
I can't understand the no-spanking laws (Germany has something similar, sadly). I understand where they're coming from (preventing child abuse), but as others have remarked, reasoning is just not very effective for very young and/or bratty and misbehaved kids...
Posted by: Gudy at January 10, 2004 12:51 AM (tXQvz)
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