A quandry.

The babies have been attending their nursery since March. It's a nice nursery, a good nursery yes? Yes.

Will now be singing Fiddler On the Roof songs for the rest of the day.

Anyway. The nursery they attend is several villages away from where we live. It was the only nursery in the area we could get the babies into, it's got "Outstanding" on the Ofsted ratings, and apart from the odd biting incidents, the babies seem to get on well there. It's been a real learning curve, and it can get frustrating since most of the carers are quite young and not so experienced with babies, but in general the babies' have really thrived there. Nora is a real favorite amongst the staff and when Nick goes down for his naps Nora - who is more of a nighttime snoozer than her brother - gets carted around and visits the older kids' rooms.

The problem is that not only is this nursery quite a drive from the house, but it's expensive. Shockingly, eye wateringly expensive. Even with a company discount and childcare vouchers, we are hit very hard by the cost of nursery fees. Luckily I chucked my entire bonus in a savings account last year, and despite the row that move caused, I've been glad for it - it's helping fund the monthly childcare cost.

There is another nursery in the picture now. Closer to the house - on a nice day even within walking distance - we've been trying to get into it for ages. It got a "Good" rating from Ofsted, but it's run by the county council and is not a for-profit nursery like the one the twins currently attend. What's even more of a driver for us is the fact that the nursery bill will be slashed by £950 a month. £950. I don't know what your monthly incomes are like, but that £950 is a huge relief, and means the difference between being able to pay the nursery bill out of the paycheck instead of hitting up a savings accout that's getting so thin it's nearly anorexic.

We toured the new nursery on Thursday to make sure we were happy with it. We showed up during a juice break, and the kids were all gathered together and were singing and such. Everyone seemed happy. The nursery was clean, stocked with all kinds of arts, crafts, and toys, and the baby room was a happy cheerful place.

We agreed this is what's best for the family as a whole. The babies will be happy and safe, our nursery bill will be slashed dramatically, and the nursery staff were older and more experienced. We turned in our notice at the babies' current nursery.

And then.

Harriet is a young woman who is currently the babies' primary carer at their nursery. She absolutely adores the twins, and they respond well to her. She's level-headed, firm, and doesn't have a problem dealing with toddler tantrums.

Harriet pulled me aside on Friday and asked if we would consider hiring her on as a nanny, instead of putting the babies in a new nursery.

We didn't see that one coming.

We'd originally elected to not use a nanny as we felt they cost too much, and since we both work from home we worried we would interfere. Just the term "nanny" to me feels like some kind of posh realm that I have no right inhabiting. Nannies are for people who have their shit together, not someone like me who couldn't for the life of her find a rubber band this morning. Nannies are for the upper class. They're for people who jet off to Monte Carlo for the weekend and attend movie premieres with their boobs held in with special tape and get Botox every 6 weeks. They're not for people who prefer a nice bowl of macaroni and cheese while in their boxer shorts watching downloaded episodes of Brothers and Sisters.

But the more we thought about it, the more it sounded feasible. The idea that the babies were just a room away. Harriet said they'd still get socialization as she'd attend baby and toddler groups with them. She's really keen.

And now we're weighing up our options.

I'm in foreign territory here - I don't know how to employ someone. What happens if she wants a career change? Or if she gets pregnant - do we pay for maternity leave? If she decides not to nanny we're screwed - the new nursery the babies will attend is full until June 2010. We wouldn't be able to get a new place there, let alone two new places. What is a relationship like that like, employer to nanny? How are holidays handled? Taxes? Where'd I leave the remote?

Harriet is coming round to see the house later this week and talk with us. I think she'll be warned off just by seeing the state of the house, especially considering the fact that all of the bathrooms now have windows in them, and until the two new bathrooms are ready it means we're furtively peeing as fast as we can. Don't even get me started on the flashing that goes on when we shower now.

I'm maybe getting worried over nothing. It's most likely we'll continue with the plan of going to the new nursery, as it will likely come down to money. I wish it wasn't the case, and I'm not sacrificing the babies for the allmighty pound as all of the options we're weighing have been prioritized for their safety (although if I could find a pack of wolves who'd not only watch the babies for a fiver but would ensure the twins have access to all the bananas they want to eat, I'd consider it) and happiness, but the financial drain of the nursery they're in now is dramatic, and has to change.

Advice gratefully received here (unless you're going to tell me that I should take the babies out of nursery, quit my job, and stay at home. Don't go there.)

-H.

PS - Teresa was right. The "N" word is a word we all know, but one that I don't like being used here or anywhere else around me. If we can steer clear of that word, that would make me happy. That, and please don't use the word "ginormous". Ginormous is not a word and it pisses me off.

PPS - How did I handle that guy last week? I'll be honest - I wanted to blow up and let my inner sarcastic bitch run ragged over his ego. But I feel the industry is in flux, and that perhaps any day now I may wind up working for him (even though I won't. No really.) So all I did was smile sweetly in my voice, and reply "You think so? I've been told I'm many things, but vulnerable is not one of them. Now about the plans..." It made him stop talking to me in that soft voice of his, anyway.

Posted by: Everydaystranger at 09:46 AM | Comments (32) | Add Comment
Post contains 1185 words, total size 7 kb.

1 Wow. 950 Pound Sterling is the difference between the fees? I really do not want to know how much is the total... It leaves me breathless. Lily And of course a nanny is not too posh for you. Never:-)

Posted by: Lily at June 23, 2008 10:05 AM (Y8m4l)

2 AS someone who has served as a nanny and a child care provider in my own home...I am going to advise you to just stick with the nursery. Having to rely solely on one person to care for your babies can be streddful. I am not sure how it works in England, but in the US, taxes are a pain. If she is sick, would you have a reliable "Plan B"? Feelings get hurt if/when certain expectations are not met...like paid leave, holiday bonuses and birthday gifts. I don't know you well, but I gather that you like your privacy...and with a nanny in your home, you won't have that. I know that chosing a caregiver for your sweet babies isn't easy...good luck!

Posted by: justdawn at June 23, 2008 10:21 AM (sVav0)

3 Hi Been there done both - on both sides, drop me a line. My reaction is stick to plan A, move to the other nursery, but the biggest red flag is that the lovely nursery worker actually approached you with the suggestion. Am happy to chat more with you and give you my reasons why more discreetly.

Posted by: Mia at June 23, 2008 10:45 AM (n+7qo)

4 you can never be too posh for a nanny but consider this, if you hired one you would lose your privacy particularly if you work from home - and yes the twins will be a huge distraction. if it were me, i'd stick to your original plan ...

Posted by: Mei at June 23, 2008 10:56 AM (/0JId)

5 you an never be too posh for a nanny but consider this - you would lose some privacy and the twin would be a huge distraction especially if you work from home. if it were me, i would stick to the original plan

Posted by: Mei at June 23, 2008 11:00 AM (/0JId)

6 sorry about that - thought it didn't publish my comment at first

Posted by: Mei at June 23, 2008 11:01 AM (/0JId)

7 I agree with Lily and dawn here. Stick to plan A. I was a aupaire when I was younger. Which led me into running my own daycare. It is hard, both of them. If money wasn't a question and your new addition had a in-law that she could stay in and you had a back up in case she was sick, needs/wants a vacation etc... I kind of wonder why she approached you too. It could be that she just simply would rather be an aupaire/nanny than work in a daycare center. I wish you well in your decision making. It is hard.

Posted by: justme at June 23, 2008 11:05 AM (m9SE6)

8 Wow, well daycare really costs a fortune doesn't it!? Um I tend to agree with the suggestions already made, sticking with plan A. It does seem like in this situation you might be better served by keeping them in daycare. On the subject of nannies and 'poshness' though, I wanted to say a few things. I have been working as a nanny for the past two years, first in Chicago (for a Russian family) and now over here in Hungary. Neither family was/is incredibly rich and both have fraternal twins, so the job is twice what it would be for one baby. That means if they go with daycare, costs through the roof as you know. Anyway. In both cases the parents had/have other motivations for hiring someone in home to watch their kids. In Chicago they didn't want to put the kids in daycare at such a young age...oh man once kids go to daycare the illnesses just start coming, ear infections too. At my current job I was especially qualified because they want the kids to learn English (from a native speaker) beginning when they're babies. I live with the family and get room and board in addition to my pay. Not a large amount but my reasons for coming here were also many beyond simply taking this job. The point I am trying to make here is simply that in certain situations having a nanny is achievable and makes sense regardless of income or 'life put-togetherness'. Au pairs and nannies do the work they do for many reasons and I know some who use it as an opportunity to see new places and live abroad. I know my reasons are not single faceted. I think day care has its place as well and I think Nick and Nora will not be any worse off for going at such a young age. I just wanted to give my thoughts on some of what you mentioned in your post. Good luck with this whole situation and decision making.

Posted by: Liz at June 23, 2008 11:49 AM (ztng6)

9 I would also stick to plan A. She would be to close to you and you would watch every move she'd make with the babies. Be sure that this would draft you away from work, which is the main idea behind giving babies to a nursery, being free to work. And be sure, that in about a year and a half the babies might get bored with one person, they will be fascinated by elder kids and learn a lot from them. I had a "Tagesmutter" for my little boy at the end of the eightees for a year, a woman who nursed some kids in her own home. That was nice for a while, but you never find a person who totally agrees with your concepts of education, food, philosophy etc.. So, I think it is better to chose a public institution, also because of control what's going on there. Paula

Posted by: Paula at June 23, 2008 12:24 PM (Mup6Y)

10 We had a nanny for about 6 mos. when my son was small. The only thing I can tell you is to draw up a contract and cover all those things you mentioned in your post (pregnancy, vacation, etc.) and try to find an alternate, so that when she is sick you are not left in the lurch.

Posted by: kenju at June 23, 2008 12:49 PM (W0S5c)

11 hmmm...I would have to say that I enjoy my nanny. I work solely from home, minus one day a week going into the office. I have never felt like my privacy has been breached nor that I could not get my work done. It is like anything else in life. While the nanny is here I work..when the nanny is gone I..well I still work haha. It really is about how comfortable you feel about having a nanny. I got lucky and loved my first one. She has been here since my daughter was 3 months old. She is now one. If you go with the nanny idea...have a contract drawn up that says what vacation days she is allowed what to do if she is sick, how much she is getting paid, and other important information that way neither one of you will be confused. Can't imagine what you pay for nursery...wow!! Also just to throw this in I Love your blog. I have been a loyal reader for almost 3 years now. I leave a post occasionally!!! Thanks for letting us into your life!

Posted by: Melissa at June 23, 2008 12:50 PM (zAXwT)

12 Stick with a nursery. Especially since you work at home, but even if you didn't, as others said, I wouldn't want to have to depend on one person for my child care. With a nursery, there's always coverage when you need it. If you decide to go the nanny route, you'll have to stick with it even if this particular nanny doesn't work out. I doubt you'll continue to get propositioned out of the blue by nannies and finding future replacements won't be that easy. At a center, they have their socialization and activities all in one safe environment. This woman would not only be in your home, she'd be taking off with your babies to babies and toddlers groups? With other nannies?

Posted by: paula at June 23, 2008 12:55 PM (sNZxg)

13 The decision isn't so much nanny vs nursery as Harriet vs nursery. You don't know her qualifications, work history or sickness record, if you wanted a nanny there might be others out there way better suited to you than she is. You look to have enough to worry about in your life just now without wondering whether she'll be sick on the morning of the big meeting and leave you in the lurch. Nursery is the easier option, it's always there and managed by someone else. It's also not in your living room when you fancy a quickie at lunchtime.

Posted by: Caroline M at June 23, 2008 01:28 PM (x3QDi)

14 I have to say I have not regretted taking my daughter out of nursery and hiring a nanny instead. Nursery was great and was convenient when it was just the one but not when there were two. Also if I am honest I think my youngest does better with the nanny than his sister did at the same age at nursery. Oh and I am a cereal in front of Brothers & Sisters kind of girl. Hiring a nanny is pretty easy. Most of the nanny agencies have draft contracts on their websites which are fine. You will need to deal with holiday pay, sick pay and maternity pay too if she gets pregnant. Tax is a bore if you do it yourself (I do) but there are plenty of companies who will do it for you for about £250 per annum. I know lots of people who do cash in hand but I think that is very unfair as the nannies lose out on NI contributions, maternity, sick and holiday pay as well as being against the law (says the lawyer and govt employee). Going rate for a nanny in north London is betwen £9 and £11 per hour net (so add another 33%ish to get gross - I have a website that works it out for you). This is usually quite a bit more than they get at a nursery where it is usually minimum wage. If your nanny is Ofsted registered you can use the childcare vouchers - the process is not too difficult if they have experience. It is a pain if the nanny gets sick or always wants hols when you don't (the usual deal is you choose 2 weeks she chooses 2 weeks) but I have only had to use emergency childcare at a local nursery once in the last year when either one of us couldn't stay home. I have a web link for a co that does that with some of the big chain nurseries - they got me a place for 9 am at 8 am the same day. There is also the benefit that she comes in when they are sick and cannot go to the nursery As you are in a village there is also the added question about whether you are happy for the nanny to drive them around. Also endless music/play groups have their own costs. You will probably aslo when they are 2.5 to 3 wanyt to put them in a nursery school (as opposed to daycare)/ Montesssori environment for a few hours a week - again more costs. Personally I would not be too concerned that she approached you. A lot of the nursery staff I knew intended to become nannies and used the nursery environment to get experience and qualifications before changing tack. Would you employ a school leaver as a nanny - no probably not; but a 24 year old with 4-5 years nursery experience - maybe. So in your shoes I would say yes to the new local nursery and interview her at the same time. You will soon know when you have her in your house whether she is right. I interviewed loads and it was obvious when I found the one.

Posted by: Betty M at June 23, 2008 01:48 PM (q0m9f)

15 This is just my two cents...I'm a caregiver, or was until my current condition . I've had several children that I adored leave my center and although I missed them, I had a duty to the other children in my care. I would never of just ran off to nanny a child. I fear that she may change her mind quickly again if another opportunity arrises and you'll be stuck. I wonder where her loyalities lye. I would address this with her. Find out why she is so eager to leave her current job. Ask her everything that comes to mind. This is a hard choice to make because if she doesn't work out, if she doesn't like being a nanny (i've been one, sometimes it's not easy ) you're going to be out of care for your little ones. I wish you the best. This can't be an easy decision.

Posted by: Tina at June 23, 2008 01:56 PM (iZffx)

16 Ah, I was going to type what betty typed, but she's already done it so I don't have to. Www.nannytax.co.uk will do all the taxes etc for you. And you can work through the ofsted registration, it's a pain but it's not too hard, and while she's waiting to get registered, your childcare vouchers can just sit in your account waiting, then you use them all up once she's got her registration number. Penny Leach, my personal child care guru, says that children do better with a single stable primary caregiver for the first 2 years, after that they do better in social environments. So nanny it is, as far as I'm concerned. Hope you can make it work. Oh and btw I would not spend a lot of time interviewing nannies. If you know harriet, and trust her, then go with her - interviewing nannies is terribly hard and it's very hard to know what you're looking for at an interview. go with your gut.

Posted by: thalia at June 23, 2008 01:58 PM (74rI5)

17 If you choose the nearby daycare center and don't like it, you could call the nanny and see if she's still available. But if you choose the nanny, you lose the option to go to the nearby daycare center if you don't like the nanny. You could even tell the "nanny" you're going to try the nearby daycare center due to cost, but let her know you'd like to employ her if that doesn't work out after a month or two. I think the idea of a nanny (if she's affordable and stable) is superior to a day care center. But I think I'd go with the day care center for assured stability. You never know if the nanny will get married (or divorced), have her own kids, go to college, or decide she just doesn't want to nanny anymore. If anything caused her to leave, you'd be up the creek.

Posted by: Solomon at June 23, 2008 02:15 PM (x+GoF)

18 I did daycare out of my home for quite a few years, and worked for the county in daycare before that. There are advantages/disadvantages to both (not the quality of care, just cost, availability, stuff like that), but alas, that doesn't help you one bit. As far as her approaching you-I don't see a problem with that. If she adores the twins and would like to care for them and them alone, that is wonderful. Then again, I know nothing about being a nanny or employing one. I would suppose after she comes over and more details are discussed your decision will be clearer. Either one sounds brilliant, and the extra savings is in a word-wow. I wish I could find me some wolves to care for the kids. Sounds more like my kind of people.

Posted by: Teresa at June 23, 2008 02:42 PM (DADoo)

19 That's a tough call. I'd probably try the cheaper nursery first. If you decide later on that a private nanny is the way to go, you still have that option. And I'd wonder why Harriet was trying to poach clients rather than getting listed with an agency. I mean, I know she loves Nick and Nora but something about that makes me raise my eyebrow. And holy crap, with the currency exchange, that price difference is almost $2000 per month for me. That's more than our mortgage payment. Ouch. Can't imagine what the total is if that's just the difference in cost.

Posted by: donna at June 23, 2008 02:59 PM (0HRnQ)

20 Daycare pros and cons pro stability, set expectations, fees and no sick days, (they always have other employees), close to home cons kids catch more colds etc, other kids issues (biting ex.) Nanny pros and cons pro, one on one, less illness, in home care, can install nannycam and watch all day cons, no back up, paperwork, her expectations, vs your expectations, intrusion and distraction in home. It really is 6 of one, a half dozen of another isn't it? You could always just stay home, (LOL running away now!)

Posted by: Donna at June 23, 2008 05:20 PM (fAYQ9)

21 As a woman who loves babies, I can totally see why Harriet wants to stay with your kids if she has fallen in love with them half as much as your blog readers have. On the flip side, although most likely 100% innocent, it kind of creeps me out, too. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do it, but I would be very observant and that would probably make me wish that I had just moved to the new nursery. Either way, 950 a month is an incredible savings and definitely a good enough reason to move the babies. Babies are flexible and love anyone that loves them, they will be fine.

Posted by: Melissa at June 23, 2008 07:29 PM (+Wg/4)

22 Nannying is not something I can speak on intelligently. But if you do your research, talk to her, check her background to make sure she isn't an axe murderer, etc. then it may be worth your while, especially if it eases the strain on the finances. And you never know what kind of child care contacts she may have that could help you in the future. But, as others here have stated, keep in mind that it may cut into your privacy. If you look at all options with your eyes open, you won't go wrong.

Posted by: diamond dave at June 23, 2008 07:32 PM (8WUD9)

23 In theory I like the nanny idea, but I know SO MANY people who have had nannies they love quit for one reason or another, and then they are really screwed. If the nanny leaves and the twins end up back in nursery, it could be difficult because they won't be used to the group environment anymore. I'm sure you will have a better idea after you speak with her more about it. I wish you luck, it's a hard decision!

Posted by: sarah at June 23, 2008 07:44 PM (2hQM0)

24 wolves for nannies is Extream Crunchy Granola!!! and totally 'EF-ING-ginormously'cool. haha.

Posted by: j.m at June 23, 2008 07:48 PM (ygieo)

25 Explore your options. Wow, that's really helpful, isn't it? I have a friend who does professional nannying and just from knowing her, I'd say that Harriet may want to get into nannying but used the nursery as a stepping-stone. Aside from that, I know nothing about the issue. I think the idea of "nanny plus backup" is a good bet, as is new nursery (what is it with the waiting lists? You'd think there'd be more daycares to fill the need is the wait times are that bad.)

Posted by: B. Durbin at June 23, 2008 09:43 PM (tie24)

26 As a former nanny who helped raise 7 kids including quads, I say get a nanny. Make sure you have a detailed contract, she will get holidays and sick days along with taxes taken out, ect... along with your expectations of her duties. I'd go with an agency tough. Have Harriet join one and let them to the leg work then request an interview with her. Also interview others to get an idea of her qualities.

Posted by: kenna at June 23, 2008 10:19 PM (v1czQ)

27 Hi Helen, I've read your blog for a while now but not sure I've ever commented. I have been a professional nanny for 4+ years now. It has been great. The only problem I have personally run into is parents putting their kids into a nursery and me being all of the sudden out of job, which is actually the opposite of what you're worried about. I just wanted to mention that nannying is becoming more and more common, and that none of the families I ever worked for where the kind of people that didn't have to look high & low to find a rubber band sometimes. They were all just normal people.

Posted by: Melanie at June 24, 2008 12:52 AM (12hcq)

28 Stick with the daycare. They don't call in sick. They don't require withholding and appropriate tax reporting. They don't change their mind and realize they really didn't want to be a nanny after all. And, the kids will get tons of socialization. Move to the nursery closer to your home - save the $$ for the teen years and college. You'll be glad you did. The house looks fab, by the way. Hugs, Mindy in Tracy, CA

Posted by: MindyMax at June 24, 2008 01:47 AM (/BQbI)

29 I once nannied for a summer...though because I was a lowly teen, it was referred to as "mothers helper," the difference being that the overbearing creature I was employed by used every opportunity to tell me what I was doing wrong (such as "not allowing him to explore his sensory capabilities via smashing peas into the wall" or "giving him a time-out for biting after only two warnings"). That, and being nanny-cammed. Anyway. I say go for the nursery. The more socialization with other tots, the better. Plus, babies have an uncanny ability while in the presence of nannies to realize "Hey, wait a minute. Mom's in the house. I don't need to pay attention to this wannabe. I need to scream as loudly as possible until Mom can't ignore me!"

Posted by: D at June 24, 2008 03:12 AM (O98kd)

30 I once read that daycare is awfully stressful for little kids. When they are that young, they don't need the noise, crowd and shared viruses! All of my friends who sent their kids to daycare ended up sick all winter because the children would pass on whatever they had caught to the parents (read http://brooklyngirl.typepad.com/brooklyngirl/ !) I have a nanny and I am really happy about my choice. My son is very relaxed, gets one on one attention, is never sick. I used to work one day a week from home and it was bliss to see him. It all depends on you really, but this gives you the opportunity to watch them grow (and they change so much at this age!). And the back-up is not REALLY a deal breaker (you or Angus can be the back up, and you must have friends and/or family who might help). Of course, there is the associated cost, and my friends who use daycare spend twice less than I do...

Posted by: marie baguette at June 24, 2008 03:13 AM (BNqmF)

31 One of our department nurses has two kids recently went the nanny route. Has been thrilled. Youngest was always sick and other problems. She was aware of the potential problems mentioned by many here. Decided nanny route worth the potentil downside. My take from afar is N&N will do fine either way. Money difference seems hard to turn down.

Posted by: Charles at June 25, 2008 01:20 AM (maQJG)

32 about the "socialization"? how social are kids at that age? Honestly? :-) I keep having playdates and the kids are totally uninterested -- all they want is the toy the other kid is playing with, and that's it! Enjoy your night out in London!

Posted by: marie baguette at June 26, 2008 02:16 AM (BNqmF)

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